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  1. #1
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    Default Central american boa size

    I always hear the "Dwarf" word used with CA boas.. I think sure smaller than Colombian but Dwarf is a little much.

    Who has CA boas older than 5 years old that are still tiny?

    Here is an old pic of me holding a male pure hog island boa, I think he was 11 or 12 years old in the pic..


    I just posted pics of an 01 Nic hypo female on another thread thats 7ft.. but here she is again.
    Ed Lilley
    www.constrictorsnw.com

    Check my available snakes at this link:
    http://www.reptileinsider.com/classi...panamared.html

    I rejoined facebook... I don't feel good about it...



    [/I]

  2. #2
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    Default

    My El Salvador pair from late 06 are still very small.
    They eat a mouse pr. month.

    This photo is a few days old (notice the lighter):
    Last edited by manos; 02-09-2009 at 12:37 AM.

  3. #3
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    I agree--My 03 hogs are about the same size as slow grown colombians. However I purchased them in early 07 at just about the size they are now and they had been on a once a week feed schedule their whole lives and their body shape was pretty round. Those fatties did not breed for me. This year they are slimmed down and should both be proven. Now my beautiful 06 female hog on the other hand is about the size of the 07 female hypo from ChristianC's ghost litter (they were big kids.)

  4. #4
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    Those hogs I had were long and lean.. The female, you can just see her in the old cage with the door open is gravid. I was pulling the male out..

    My El Salvador pair from late 06 are still very small.
    They eat a mouse pr. month.
    I gotta ask just for the sake of the whole idea on this thread.. You think it would be bigger with bigger food, and bi monthly?

    I have seen large Sonorans 6ft+ quite often..
    Ed Lilley
    www.constrictorsnw.com

    Check my available snakes at this link:
    http://www.reptileinsider.com/classi...panamared.html

    I rejoined facebook... I don't feel good about it...



    [/I]

  5. #5
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    Default

    I don't like "dwarf" either. I brought this subject up on another forum a few years ago...it wound up being a big argument.

    A lot of people don't reailze that Central Americans can get pretty big. I have heard of Hondurans that were 8-9 feet long. I beileve that one of the female Costa Ricans in the Grecia serpentium is 9 feet long.....how many of her babies have been imported?

    Also, there are already boas called "true dwarves" They belong to the Tropidophis ssp.,Trachyboa ssp., Ungaliophis ss., and Exiliboa ssp., genera.

    I think there are a few B.c.i. that are smaller than average, thus making them a dwarf when compared to B.c.i. as a whole. But to label all B.c.i. as dwarves, IMO is wrong.

    I do have three very small Nicaraguan B.c.i. They aren't 5 years old yet, but this 2005 female Nicaraguan is at most 38 inches long. I attempted to measure her this weekend but she didn't want to play that game



    That picture was taken in December. I would consider her as a dwarf when compared to other Nicaraguans.

    This 2004 male is only 42 inches...but he's never been a strong feeder.



    I also have another 2005 male that isn't very large, and another poor feeder.

    Most every other 2003 to 2006 Nicaraguan boa that I have is about the size of this guy:



    Every other Nic that I have (aside from the two that don't eat well) are voracious feeders, are growing at about the same rate, and will get fat if overfed....

    As far as the bigger with bigger/more food. I don't think overfeeding produces large snakes just fat ones. Underfeeding can result in smaller than normal boas. If a boa is predestined to be 6 feet (let's say both parents were). You can make the boa 4-5 feet by underfeeding.

    On another note, I think there are people purposely underfeeding their animals to keep them small, to sell them as "dwarves"

    Amie

  6. #6
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    I think the term "Dwarf" is indeed used a lot these days...there are only a few CA Localities which are TRUE dwarfs.

    There are 2 kinds of dwarfs I think, the "normal" dwarfs, and the "TRUE" dwarfs.

    There are not much TRUE dwarfs out there, best example of course are the Tarahumara's from Mexico.

    You do you hold for standards? What do you think a dwarf boa must be to be a dwarf?
    This is different for a lot of people, this is what causes the confusion I think (and of course people wanting to make a quick buck so they label their boas as dwarfs...)
    Regards,
    Robbert

  7. #7
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    I didn't realize how badly I butcher the word "serpentarium," sorry about that.

    One more thing that I'd like to add, I think many "pure" locales are not as pure as people think. I have seen many, many people that have crosses, that KNOW they are crosses but will label the boa as what it most resembles. For example Nic X Colombian, most often are called Nics. That I believe also plays a part in the size and confusion reguarding size.

    Robbert --I consider the average size of B.c.i. to be anywhere from 4.5-7 feet.

    Amie

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bciaddict View Post
    Robbert --I consider the average size of B.c.i. to be anywhere from 4.5-7 feet.

    Amie
    Amie,

    That's indeed the average size of a Bci, but a fact is not all Bci are dwarfs.
    Personally I think everything under and around 5 feet, can be considered to be dwarfs.

    But it's like you said, ( I didn't see you post when I posted mine ) underfeeding is a big problem...it's disgusting people are feeding boas less than they deserve to make a extra buck.
    As well as the fact some crosses are labeled as being pure locals.

    You bring up Hondurans in your previous post, those are indeed some hudge examples...I feed my Hondurans around 2/3 meals every month (but the correct size meal, not to small but also not to big), and I expect them never to go beyond 5 feet (females) if I see how they are sized at this moment, I just can't imagine...thus I call them dwarfs.
    Would you remove this label because there are a handful of Honduras which have grown to the "normal Bci" standards?

    Interesting discussion
    Regards,
    Robbert

  9. #9
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    Robbert,

    One definition of "dwarf" according to Webster's Dictionary, 11th Edition is:

    "an animal or plant much below normal size"

    So if 4.5.-7 foot is considered normal for B.c.i than one that is 3 foot would fit this description but I don't think one that is say, 4 feet long is truly a dwarf since it is only slightliy smaller than what is considered normal.

    Take an adult Caulker Cay boa, which are about 5 feet long and about as thick as a broom handle, compared to an adult Colombian B.c.i it's a dwarf. Compared to average sized Nicaraguan, Corn Island, Costa Rican, Panamanian, or Sonoran it's not a whole lot smaller.

    Personally I don't like to use the term "dwarf", I call mine "smaller boas"

    I think it's one of those words that many people have different opinions of like "pastel" To what degree is one considered a dwarf, to me, it's a boa under 4 feet, to someone else it's all B.c.i.

    Amie

  10. #10
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    By the way Robbert, great looking Hondurans. I didn't see that thread before.

    Amie

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