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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyudsai View Post
    If you like your boa.. then that's all that matters
    Those are some very wise words. In the end, the only thing that should matter is whether or not you like your boa.

  2. #12
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    This thread kind of took a different turn than I intended but fun none the less, as for Sharons boas she is the exact example of someone who has done the right thing and made no claims as to the locale of that line of Colombian boas...thank you Sharon

    I know that she has made educated guesses as to what she believes them to be and I think most agree with her...I know I do. Amazing how the controversy would have followed them no matter if she claimed them to be a specific locale or a certain subspecies.....I think maybe there are just to many petty people...then again I can fit into that category myself sometimes.

    For what it is worth, the people who have Sharon's line I personally would have no problem breeding those with Letcia or Barranquila Colombian boas....just my opinion

    It would be great to get actual scientific fact on genetics of our boas but that would take money so for now we will just have to do the best we can with the information provided to us.
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking.

    Joel Thomas

  3. #13
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    Sorry Joel! Didn't mean to hijack your thread like that... However, I'll stick with my assumption that all of these boa ssp. and localities might benefit from genotyping and further study. In my opinion, behavior can play a huge role in defining a species or subspecies. We already have seen that among boa, but how much further can we take that factor? However, taxonomy is always changing, and honestly, I don't see a lot of species being 100% "set in stone" classified. That's not just for boa, but for many other species, too. Retics come to mind for me... they are another snake species with notably different island and locale variations- of color, size, AND disposition, but they haven't been looked at to the extent boa have that I know of.

    As for BCC people not touching Sharon's line: That's fine, and they don't have to! The line does clean up morphs, and it's been listed why people don't use it in their morph projects. Here is something I know for a fact: Sharon is just one person and one person doesn't live forever (but I should hope!). What will happen to the future of that bloodline? As of today, I haven't spoken to any other person (besides myself) wanting to breed that line as is. It would be a shame to lose those traits. Sharon's line is Sharon's line and it should be kept that way. I know 20 years down the road I will be proud to say my first boa was a Sharon Moore Boa, "Colombian" or not! If you like your boas it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!

    My main goal for keeping boas in the next few years is observing their behavior. I would like to own another Shield boa, possibly some Peruvian BCC, and one little Corn Isle. I want to compare them to each other, up close and personal. How is their behavior different? How is it the same?

    Back to Colombia... unless all the drug operations move elsewhere, I don't think we are going to learn too much about boas from there! YIKES! I would love to see boas in that area really studied... it would clear up a LOT.

    Me, personally, I like things for how they are and why they are unique compared to other things... If I get any more complicated than that I get a headache! LOL

  4. #14
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    Colombia- There are BCC, BCI and crosses all there.. Some of the Colombian BCC are super fine BTW.. You don't see so many these days.. I'd love to have some south eastern Colombian BCC...

    Suriname, Guyana maybe some of the north Brazilians- While there are some varying looks, I think they are pretty much the same boas.. I have seen Surnames that look like what some would say has to be a boa from Guyana, and boas from Brazil that look like surname boas.. I think locality names are generally good way to keep track of point of origin..

    I really don't see much wrong with breeding a boa from Guyana to a boa from Suriname, I'm sure it happens in the wild all of the time.. They border each other.... I mean hell if you were walking in the woods near your state line without a sign to tell you your in the next state over how would you know? If Suriname and Guyana joined together and became one place would it make a difference?

    I would imagine the look of locality is at minimum partially due to the area and what works best there to keep hidden, gain and retain heat, and capture prey items (food)
    At the same time I'd guess these boas interbreed across borders.. Say a Suriname boa breeds a boa from Guyana, the litter drops further into Guyana, those babies disperse further into Guyana their offspring are born near Venezuela they breed with a Venezuelan boa..... Maybe some keep going west to Colombia... But as they breed along the way the looks change more to those in the area, and those suited to the area live while the others don't... They could have headed south all the same instead of west, just an example...

    Point being I bet the DNA is spread all over....
    Ed Lilley
    www.constrictorsnw.com

    Check my available snakes at this link:
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    I rejoined facebook... I don't feel good about it...



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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boas4Life View Post
    I gotta agree with you Alex, same freegin snake. I've been fighting that battle for years on numerous forums. I can see no difference between boas from Guyana , French Guyana , Suriname, Brazil (outside the range of amarali) , and even Peru is questionable as of late. I don't think any color, or pattern can be attributed to a specific locale. Highly Variable is the name of the game, but MARKETING wins over the masses.
    The onlt difference between the shield boas are the people who originally produced animals from those areas and began to develope a very certain and distinct look. People began to associate these particular looks to the "locale" that they were labeled with and that is what birthed the idea that Surinames are pink and peaky, Guyanas are purple with blockier saddles and N. Brazilian are creamy yellow with shorter red tails....all Bull $hit!

    What a tangled web woven!
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking.

    Joel Thomas

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_Thomas View Post
    The onlt difference between the shield boas are the people who originally produced animals from those areas and began to develope a very certain and distinct look. People began to associate these particular looks to the "locale" that they were labeled with and that is what birthed the idea that Surinames are pink and peaky, Guyanas are purple with blockier saddles and N. Brazilian are creamy yellow with shorter red tails....all Bull $hit!

    What a tangled web woven!
    Bad Joel, bad

    I'm just happy with all the refined BCCs you all are working with. I am going to have fun shopping for 2 refined peaked males for my little girl next year!
    Alex Burgos

  7. #17
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    Much agreement about shield boas being the same as one another, yet no one interested in keeping their reputation intact ever breeds a Guyana to a Suriname, and then labels the babies as such.

    ....???? So uhhh... WTF?

    And those who have a collection full of Suri's wouldn't be caught dead buying a Guyana. The reverse is true as well, even for me (even though I've had them in the past). But I don't include myself in the "agreement" group.

    jb

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayRayS View Post
    As for BCC people not touching Sharon's line: That's fine, and they don't have to! The line does clean up morphs, and it's been listed why people don't use it in their morph projects. Here is something I know for a fact: Sharon is just one person and one person doesn't live forever (but I should hope!). What will happen to the future of that bloodline? As of today, I haven't spoken to any other person (besides myself) wanting to breed that line as is. It would be a shame to lose those traits. Sharon's line is Sharon's line and it should be kept that way. I know 20 years down the road I will be proud to say my first boa was a Sharon Moore Boa, "Colombian" or not! If you like your boas it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!
    Nice! I like your posts, you are a great addition to this forum!
    Alex Burgos

  9. #19
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    But basically every friggin one of them is labeled as a Suri now. Right?

    That's the message I'm trying to convey. And as I've stated twice today, is the entire reason I work with WC and CB founding stock.

    Another well known breeder has an absolute melting pot of shield localities mixed into his bloodlines, but they're still called "Surinames".

    Just to be clear, I have absolutely NO QUALMS with people owning whatever they want to own, and breeding whatever they want to breed. I do not look down upon crosses and locality crosses in the least. I'm just looking for full disclosure and I think we rarely see it.

    Interesting tidbit, even though I knew of the questionable lineage of the FLRT's, I always wanted one of those animals. It was one that was owned by Dan Mulleary. This one (click here). Interestingly, even on his site, it's listed as a Suriname (although to be fair, he does have an entire page dedicated on his site to the FLRT line and its history.

    jb

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
    Much agreement about shield boas being the same as one another, yet no one interested in keeping their reputation intact ever breeds a Guyana to a Suriname, and then labels the babies as such.

    ....???? So uhhh... WTF?

    And those who have a collection full of Suri's wouldn't be caught dead buying a Guyana. The reverse is true as well, even for me (even though I've had them in the past). But I don't include myself in the "agreement" group.

    jb

    That is the tangled part of the web, I take a boa labeled Guyana and breed it to one labeled Suriname I will be looked on as the guy who crosses Bcc and will certainly have a harder time selling my animals....things were so much easier back when they were just "true red tails"

    You know I am one who has always argued the locality issue but I will say recently I have seen some very nice Bcc for sale that were produced by a guy who gave full disclosure that they were bred form parents from different countries.

    Hey man you know I am willing to take the plunge
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking.

    Joel Thomas

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