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  1. #21
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    ok now this is getting exciting and very interesting! So FLRTs are not Suris?
    Alex Burgos

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boas4Life View Post
    I don't know if I agree with that one JB .. I remember Brian of Florida Redtails catching a whole bunch of flack about his animals possible being Brazilian X Surinam cross rather then just suris... he changed his web page and called Bobo the matriarch a boa of unknown origin , and guess what? People still bought them, and they are still one of the most sought after bloodlines. So, does it really matter ? Mark is locality guy he has one, Orlando is a locality guy he has animals crossed with Florida Redtails blood, and so do I amongst others.
    The animals speak for themselves, people buy what they like regardless of the label.

    Good point and that litter was produced after the "labeling craze" of the late 80's and early 90's.

    I have some FLRT blood in my collection but I do know several people that won't touch them because they feel they are crossed....again I call FOUL BALL!

    Thank gosh for the French Guiana blood that was brought in, too bad people had to start labeling crap as they saw fit

    I choose to start calling myself a "Bcc or true redtail guy" I think I will leave the "locality" label to those who have documentation and substantial proof.
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking.

    Joel Thomas

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
    But basically every friggin one of them is labeled as a Suri now. Right?

    That's the message I'm trying to convey. And as I've stated twice today, is the entire reason I work with WC and CB founding stock.

    Another well known breeder has an absolute melting pot of shield localities mixed into his bloodlines, but they're still called "Surinames".

    Just to be clear, I have absolutely NO QUALMS with people owning whatever they want to own, and breeding whatever they want to breed. I do not look down upon crosses and locality crosses in the least. I'm just looking for full disclosure and I think we rarely see it.

    Interesting tidbit, even though I knew of the questionable lineage of the FLRT's, I always wanted one of those animals. It was one that was owned by Dan Mulleary. This one (click here). Interestingly, even on his site, it's listed as a Suriname (although to be fair, he does have an entire page dedicated on his site to the FLRT line and its history.

    jb
    JB you know they had to take the Suriname tag....nobody would ever believe that anything else would sell.

    I have shared that story with you about the first time I saw redtails being labeled at an import house for the first time The darker ones were Guyana and the lighter ones were Suriname....but they were both from the exact same shipment and the same friggin box!
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking.

    Joel Thomas

  4. #24
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    I felt comfortable with Matt's story, and still do. I met him in person shortly after purchasing Rose, went to his place, met his wife too. I never got the vibe from him that he had a reason to lie or make things up.

    He also got out of boas (from what I heard) to pursue missionary work. Things just seemed to add up, ya know?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
    But basically every friggin one of them is labeled as a Suri now. Right?

    That's the message I'm trying to convey. And as I've stated twice today, is the entire reason I work with WC and CB founding stock.

    Another well known breeder has an absolute melting pot of shield localities mixed into his bloodlines, but they're still called "Surinames".

    Just to be clear, I have absolutely NO QUALMS with people owning whatever they want to own, and breeding whatever they want to breed. I do not look down upon crosses and locality crosses in the least. I'm just looking for full disclosure and I think we rarely see it.

    Interesting tidbit, even though I knew of the questionable lineage of the FLRT's, I always wanted one of those animals. It was one that was owned by Dan Mulleary. This one (click here). Interestingly, even on his site, it's listed as a Suriname (although to be fair, he does have an entire page dedicated on his site to the FLRT line and its history.

    jb
    I think being a Guyana collector you are still having to fight the misconceptions of the past,..... It's really a shame that people want to stamp Suriname on everything with peaks... and act like Guyana makes a boa less valuable... All those people should take a look at the amazing boas on your website JB.....

    True I am into Locality boas... but I think I've resigned to the fact that...
    No matter how much I want to believe the provenance of all my boas... I have to be realistic and just realize honestly... with the exception of a handful.... just know they originate somewhere in Northern South AMerica...LOL

    You're really lucky to have gotten boas sourced from an importer with a great connection .... and I respect your approach to want to keep these boas true to their locality..... This is what I am trying to do with my North Brazilians..... But I have a different approach to my Shield boas... I have more of a goal to produce designer redtails.... which is what I consider Florida Redtails line to be... and the majority of BCC breeders out there.. ANd I don't really think that drops the value.... Look at the prices these guys sell them for....

    A hot looking BCC will sell... SOme of the most expensive boas I've seen were mixes of French Guiana/ Suriname and Probably Brazilian...... I don't have a problem breeding BCC to BCC... I just dont think the Peruvians will work in that equation.....


    When I started buying BCC..... I had in my head what looks that I like... and what traits really excited me... and I bought boas for those looks... THe fun stuff will come when I start putting these looks together....and hopefully one day... I will have a bloodline that is somewhat recognizable... not by my name.... but by the beauty of the boas...
    [CENTER][SIZE="5"][FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://www.surinamboas.com/"]Visit SURINAMBOAS.COM[/URL][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]

  6. #26
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    I agree I think designer BCCs are beautiful animals and as far as I know BCC shields are not endangered so I say lets keep the BCCs beautiful and enjoy the hobby for what it is. For many of us this is a hobby, passion and to a select few a livlihood. I'm all for saving the rain forest but this is not about that. This is not about repopulation of an endangered species. Its about designer snakes and FLRT are damn awesome!
    Alex Burgos

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boas4Life View Post
    No , they are as much surinam as any other animal is their labeled locality. They were sold by the importer as surinam , but because some of the animals had shorter tails, people assumed they were crosses. Guess they just didn't fit the stereotypical mold, some people questioned their authenticity.
    Thanks bro, I guess our little pair some would say are N. Brazilians? I melt whenever I hold that lil gem from you in my hands. I would of bought it from you even if it were labeled a different shield. Thanks for responding to this as I've seen a lot of morphers buying into BCC blood recently and we need some education on this!
    Alex Burgos

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuttingEdge View Post
    Thanks bro, I guess our little pair some would say are N. Brazilians? I melt whenever I hold that lil gem from you in my hands. I would of bought it from you even if it were labeled a different shield. Thanks for responding to this as I've seen a lot of morphers buying into BCC blood recently and we need some education on this!
    THere are some Belknap boas that founded some of the FLRT line that are said to have come from French Guiana (Lindsay is the Belknap boa).... I have one of the males on the SalxBats breeders page... and up close his body shape, and patterning scream Brazilian....

    Anyway... I don't think any of that matters.... because the final product is a very striking look, that has become almost signature to that bloodline..... it's so strong that it is very apparent in offspring from FLRT x other pairings..... Like the Harrison boas.....

    Here's an example

    here's my FLRT male




    here is an older pic of my Harrison girl(1/2 FLRT 1/2 Miller)


    I believe that male,s sibling produced that female if Im correct...


    the similarities are striking...... Hopefully I will have some more photos to show you of 1/2 FLRT offspring in 105 days
    [CENTER][SIZE="5"][FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://www.surinamboas.com/"]Visit SURINAMBOAS.COM[/URL][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_Thomas View Post

    Here is the main body of this question....As I see it shield Bcc Guyana, Suriname, N.Brazil are for the most part the same boa. What I want to know are your thoughts on how a boa from the islands off of Honduras and Guatemala can be the same as a boa from west of the Andes be the same animal?

    Do you think that some of these boas from Sonora, to the hog islands should deserve different classification?

    Should basin boas from Colombia be classified as Bcc?

    I am interested to hearing peoples thoughts on this...fun stuff
    If an island boa was dna tested and found to be from 'one' form/location of boa, should they be given the same label? Maybe, but are they the same? No. The same is true for any group removed from another group, no matter what classification we give them. 'Removed' involves several things together or by itself: distance, time, founded by, habitat, developed habits, DNA, geo boundries, predator prey relationships, climate, etc, etc. The differences between the 'removed' is easy to see with strong geographical separation such as island populations, but there is difference between groups living in similar conditions that have just been separated by time and distance.

    Man must categorize, we can't help ourselves, but I would rather not lump things together and miss out on the small differences.

  10. #30
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    Gonna say that I'm one of the "Shield Lumpers"... to an extent.

    My first actual BCC is an F2 "Shield" boa. He came from an F1 female whose parents were WC Guyana... and the father was F1 from WC parents that supposedly came out of Suriname. The breeder specifically stated in his ad that the father was "Sold to him as a Suriname", meaning he could be either. At least he was honest in representing the animals he was selling. Too many people don't.

    From my understanding, true localities come from breeders who know the exact area their stock was collected from... or collected that stock themselves and developed a line out of those traits they liked from that initial WC collection over the years... is that assumption wrong?

    I could label this animal as a "Suriname" because that is what is popular and no one will bat an eyelash. He is what he is and I like him for it! To me, he has all the "parts" that I like in a "Shield" BCC

    (If you want to see a pic of him, he is in my intro post in the general section here). Judge for yourselves.

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