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  1. #1
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    Default breeding sibblings

    if you find a litter that you are blown away by and want to pickup a pair from that litter and when they are old enough you breed them together will that produce healthy babies that are able to reproduce? what about if you breed that male to another female and then one of those babies back to its fathers sister (the original female in the pair you picked up)

  2. #2
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    Boas are simpler animals than mammals and as far as I know there is relatively low risk of inbreeding. However, if you repeatedly inbreed over generations, you will definitely see genetic mutations and unhealthy animals. I'm not sure where that line is drawn though, but I'm sure someone else here can elaborate on how many generations your able to inbreed without problems.

  3. #3
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    Default breeding sibblings

    It depends on many variables. If these babies come from a line that's been
    frequently crossed within itself , problems could start to arise

    The limited gene pool of close breeding's can pull up
    and multiply good genes (traits) as well as bad genes.



    Its not a simple one answer subject !

  4. #4
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    Default so then...

    what questions do i need to ask the breeder to find out

  5. #5
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    I would definitly try to find unrelated ones when possible. As Larry mentioned good and bad come across. It seems to me that the charecteristics are greatly enhanced or bad traits come out drastilly as well. As far as asking a breeder, just ask. Any reputable breeder will share this info with you.
    ed in Ohio

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LarM View Post
    It depends on many variables. If these babies come from a line that's been
    frequently crossed within itself , problems could start to arise

    The limited gene pool of close breeding's can pull up
    and multiply good genes (traits) as well as bad genes.



    Its not a simple one answer subject !
    agreed... make sure you ask the breeder if there was any inbreeding at all and how much... ask to see the parents and make sre they look healthy and of course make sure the babies are healthy as well... some people are totally against inbreeding all together (so its a sensitive subject in some cases) but others agree to it to an extent... me personally i would breed brother and sister to each other but would never breed their babies to each other and i would never breed mom and son or dad and daughter together... but thats just me... i've seen some people who just flat out dont care and their whole collection is one big inbreeding family... you need to watch out for that...

    Mel
    Boas by Mel
    www.cajunconstrictors.com

  7. #7
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    Default

    I always hear this arguement that reptiles are simpler animals than mammals... but that really doesnt matter..... the same process of genetic division and gene distribution takes place with reptiles that does in mammals..... with that being said..... anytime you inbreed ANYTHING.... you increase the chances of expressing an undesirable or potentially pathogenic mutation to it's offspring ....... inbreeding ... should be done with care and restraint.....

    The same probabilities that act in a breeders favor to increase his odds of producing that next new morph work against him when it comes to genetic problems and mutations...... It is always a crapshoot

    I wont ever consciously inbreed.... just my personal choice.... I'm more interested in diversity..... but I guess you really can't breed morphs without it
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  8. #8
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    Default

    It sounds like you just appreciate the looks of a specific litter. There is so much variety available in boas that certain looks are bound to be available elsewhere in a manner that's not so risky. I say buy one, and find a mate elsewhere.

    If for no other reason, so that when you go to sell your babies, you can offer peace of mind to your buyers by telling them the babies are from unrelated parents. That quality will ensure your price is justified.

    jb

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyudsai View Post
    I always hear this arguement that reptiles are simpler animals than mammals... but that really doesnt matter..... the same process of genetic division and gene distribution takes place with reptiles that does in mammals.....
    The process is the same, but there are significantly less variables involved, hence less risk of genetic mutation. But I do agree with you that, regardless of the scenario, the risks are increased with inbreeding. It's just that it's more prevalent in higher-order animals.

    If possible, I think people should stay away from inbreeding. It isn't always possible though. For example, I have a pair of sibling boas from Tamaulipas, Mexico that I plan on breeding together in the future, but that's only because there is only one litter of those animals available in the hobby at this time. If I had the opportunity, I would jump at the chance at getting an unrelated pair of those boas. As JB said, the quality and assurance that you can give your customers will back your price up. That's why Vin Russo can charge $1500/pair for his Crawl Cays with unrelated blood and people will gladly pay for it.

    On a slightly separate note, I've always wondered how boas fair in the wild with inbreeding. I'm sure inbreeding is very rare in the wild for mainland boas, but what about the isolated island boas? Their population and availability is significantly less than their mainland counterparts, so how much inbreeding is really going on there? Based on how a lot of the island boas look very similar, I'm assuming there has been a lot of inbreeding over the past few generations, but why aren't there any visible signs of mutation or deformation? Or do those animals just die extremely quickly in the wild?

  10. #10
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    Default

    Good subject and responses.

    There are many examples in nature of inbreeding. Some really interesting ones are from introduced species.

    The brown tree snake in Guam was accidentally introduced and is now a plague. There is no question genetic variation started low, possibly one gravid female.

    Island boas.

    The Galapagos islands, is full of naturally introduced species of limited genetic beginnings.

    Consider BCO...did all of these boas develope the traites necessary to survive in their environment do to some change in climate or did a few, and those few claimed new ground after a mutation was 'cured' by mother nature that allowed them to move in.? Critters living in climates that their cousins cannot have adapted to do so over time and with less genetics (probably).

    Many years ago someone did an inbreeding study on Rainbow boas. I don't remember the exact details, but many generations were bred sibling to sibling and the outcome was healthy snakes that were larger.

    I've heard people blame the ''one eyed albino'' snakes on inbreeding and to some extent this is true. What is also true is that cave dwelling albinos of various species also have a tendency for blindness and or lack of eyes. Considering where we find populations of albinos...no pigment tends to indicate adapted to darkness and no need for sight.

    Check this one out:
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3122145AA19JpC

    Did lack of genetic diversity help or harm these inbreds?

    One thing that must be considered is mother nature removes weakness, captivity does not.

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