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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyudsai View Post
    I have to agree with you..... CITES sets up quotas based on research,,, and I fell like as long as the rules are followed,,,,, then they have just as much of a right to make a living as anyone else....

    This kind of reminds me of another forums that bashes any people in the business that resells imports/ farm bred animals... and wholesale CB herps.... and even gave them the derogatory name "Flippers"..... It is such a double standard... since they would have never gotten any of their reptiles in the first place if people werent "Flipping" Reptiles in the past..... They bash these guys on the forum .. then turn around and invite them on their radio show ...lol

    ANyway.. again.... if people are ethical... and keep the animals healthy... then they have the same right as anyone else to make a living......
    Speaking of flippers. Cracks me up how they are often criticize and usually by those that create their existence. For example, someone buys a pair of boa's, puts them together and to their surprise they get a healthy litter. Not being in the business and not having a channel to sell that litter, they turn to the flippers to dispose of their new found joy and make a few bucks in the process. These so called flippers are just like everyone else, they see an opportunity to make money in an available niche. No different then the guys stumbling through a forest in a land far away or some land owners finding the best crop to fend for their families.

    I'm good with rules and regulations, makes for a level playing field and ensures that which we use is treated humanely and with respect. As much as flippers and importers affect my ability to increase my profits, I also respect the right of another to fend for themselves or their families. In the end, like anything else, the consumer controls the products that are offered. If most buyers demanded captive bred or properly acclimated and treated imports then the industry would be better. A true businessman looks for the cheapest path to turn a buck. The demand by most for disposable pets maintains the current import practice. Implement regulations that penalize importers for animals arriving in poor health and you will see exporters providing a better product. It's going to cost more and perhaps curtail the numbers. The problem is us the consumers, we want it cheap and that will never change. I've seen it for 20 years. The population that demands high quality and willing to pay for that quality is miniscual compared to the number that just want a pet boa. We control the future of our industry, unfortunately, most don't care so long as they get a good deal. Really sad...
    Garriga Morphs

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GARRIGA View Post
    Speaking of flippers. Cracks me up how they are often criticize and usually by those that create their existence. For example, someone buys a pair of boa's, puts them together and to their surprise they get a healthy litter. Not being in the business and not having a channel to sell that litter, they turn to the flippers to dispose of their new found joy and make a few bucks in the process. These so called flippers are just like everyone else, they see an opportunity to make money in an available niche. No different then the guys stumbling through a forest in a land far away or some land owners finding the best crop to fend for their families.

    I'm good with rules and regulations, makes for a level playing field and ensures that which we use is treated humanely and with respect. As much as flippers and importers affect my ability to increase my profits, I also respect the right of another to fend for themselves or their families. In the end, like anything else, the consumer controls the products that are offered. If most buyers demanded captive bred or properly acclimated and treated imports then the industry would be better. A true businessman looks for the cheapest path to turn a buck. The demand by most for disposable pets maintains the current import practice. Implement regulations that penalize importers for animals arriving in poor health and you will see exporters providing a better product. It's going to cost more and perhaps curtail the numbers. The problem is us the consumers, we want it cheap and that will never change. I've seen it for 20 years. The population that demands high quality and willing to pay for that quality is miniscual compared to the number that just want a pet boa. We control the future of our industry, unfortunately, most don't care so long as they get a good deal. Really sad...
    EXACTLY..... It's really sad what the US reptile market has become..... THere are definitely a large volume of questionable stuff on the market these days....and what I don't get is... with all the technology and access to instant information like breeder/ seller reputation, the ability to feel people out on forums... and the access to many different competing producers..YOu remember the old days.... snail mail pricelists back in the late 80s early 90s.... Seeing a picture of something before you buy was almost unheard of...
    With all the high quality stuff being produced people still look for the cheap deals...... and they expect people that have a far superior product to drop their prices to match the farm bred stuff...LOL... I truly believe that you get what you pay for..... and honestly... I will give bcc away to my close friends who appreciate them before I will dump them on the market cheap and make things worse. I really fear for the future of our hobby...

    THen there are those that think they are going to get rich buy buying the bottom of the barrel stuff, breeding it.. then all of a sudden they want to charge the same high prices that they were cryin about originally.... LOL
    [CENTER][SIZE="5"][FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://www.surinamboas.com/"]Visit SURINAMBOAS.COM[/URL][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyudsai View Post
    EXACTLY..... It's really sad what the US reptile market has become..... THere are definitely a large volume of questionable stuff on the market these days....and what I don't get is... with all the technology and access to instant information like breeder/ seller reputation, the ability to feel people out on forums... and the access to many different competing producers..YOu remember the old days.... snail mail pricelists back in the late 80s early 90s.... Seeing a picture of something before you buy was almost unheard of...
    With all the high quality stuff being produced people still look for the cheap deals...... and they expect people that have a far superior product to drop their prices to match the farm bred stuff...LOL... I truly believe that you get what you pay for..... and honestly... I will give bcc away to my close friends who appreciate them before I will dump them on the market cheap and make things worse. I really fear for the future of our hobby...

    THen there are those that think they are going to get rich buy buying the bottom of the barrel stuff, breeding it.. then all of a sudden they want to charge the same high prices that they were cryin about originally.... LOL
    Like I've said before, Joe the consumer drives the market. So long as Joe is willing to pay for sub quality product at a discount, there will be somebody providing Joe with the product he demands. You get what you pay for. In the early 90's I purchased many imports and sold them. Most didn't survive. Some of my clients didn't appreciate it. First thing I told them was the need for a vet check with any import. Explained how it was not cost effective for me to perform those expenditures and then meet the low market demand price. Many didn't follow my advise and their new purchase perished. We had a term back then that still applies today, Disposable Pets.

    I got out of that business and swore to never deal with imports again. Now I purchase my breeders and sell my own produced offsprings or breeders I have no future plans for. I dont deal in imports nor do I broker others product. Thats my choice. I would love nothing better then for Joe the consumer to demand high quality captive bred product direct from the breeder or through channels that can ensure where that product was produced.

    Unfortunately, most aren't willing to pay me $750 for Lipstick Sunglows of high quality because they can buy one for $250 from a flipper. I should be able to get $125 for my Het Albinos siblings to those Sunglows but the wholesale is $20 bucks if someone is willing buy them from you. Doesn't help that the same flipper who paid $20 has it on their table for $25 because they want to make a quick buck and don't care what damage they do to the price tomorrow.

    To much short sided thinkers on both ends of the line. We need better business educated sellers and buyers. Until that happens, there will always be a need for large volumes of low priced imports and flippers selling boa's for $25 dollars. Joe the consumer who has visions of making money really needs to take a rudimentary coarse on economics and force the hand of the sellers of this industry to change because they have to and not because it's an option. We are our industry...
    Garriga Morphs

  4. #34
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    what a great thread and nice discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by PanamaRed View Post
    There are plenty of boas produced in captivity here to supply more than the demand as it is CBB Normals wholesale at $30-35 each...
    more like $15, at least in this area.. for CBB established feeding het albinos!
    ug.
    I also wish they would stop with BCi being farmed and imported in such high numbers. Seems like there are plenty of people that (could) breed normals to supply the petcos/petsmarts.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by billw View Post
    That is not only a possiblity, it's probable. But when the shipment comes out of Suriname, how do you call them Brazilian?

    You never really know I guess..... It just drives me nutz to think of all of the possibilities that exist in Brazil..... SUriname is a tiny country.. and the variability of BCC there is astounding...... imagine what variation extends into Brazil.... We've seen a handful of true Brazilians......
    [CENTER][SIZE="5"][FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://www.surinamboas.com/"]Visit SURINAMBOAS.COM[/URL][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
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  6. #36
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    awesome read guys!!!
    Jen <3

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