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  1. #11
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    What about half siblings?
    F1(AB) X F1(AD) = ?
    Same father, different mother (or switch). I would assume F1.

    And, to further understand the note from Warren.
    If you have an F5 (AB) female X F2 (AB) male then the offspring are F6 due to the mother? This one I wanted to double check on as I thought it reverted to the lower parent, meaning this would produce F3 (AB). However under the explanation provided it is actually F6 (AB).

  2. #12
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    The half siblings result in the new F1 status of the offspring as the lines are essentially not inbred.

    As far as the other example goes, thats a good question. The examples I have heard all suggest using the female filial. Here is a question. Why would you want to cross an F5 with an F7, or whatever. Whichever way you take it, you have massively inbred your lines. If anything, unless you are trying to fix some unusual potentially polygenic traits, you should outbreed. I see adverts for F5 hypos on KS all the time and personally will avoid that like the plague.

    Warren
    Dr Warren Booth/USARK director

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    The half siblings result in the new F1 status of the offspring as the lines are essentially not inbred.

    As far as the other example goes, thats a good question. The examples I have heard all suggest using the female filial. Here is a question. Why would you want to cross an F5 with an F7, or whatever. Whichever way you take it, you have massively inbred your lines. If anything, unless you are trying to fix some unusual potentially polygenic traits, you should outbreed. I see adverts for F5 hypos on KS all the time and personally will avoid that like the plague.

    Warren
    The scenario was for understanding terminology only. I do agree with you on avoidance.

    I personally have yet to produce higher than F1. A few F2 litters will come in time though. I see no reason to ever go beyond F3.

  4. #14
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    I reached F4 with Amazon tree boas, with the desire to determine the polygenetic heritablity of color and pattern. Although F3 crosses of, for example solid red amazons, produced in general solid red babies, there were always instances of barden phase, or patterned animals in these litters.

    Warren
    Dr Warren Booth/USARK director

  5. #15
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    Thanks JB for such an informative post and something that really think needed to be addressed as I have seen animals marked with filial generations that just don't hold water. Whether it's lack of understanding or thinking that a higher filial number is better and used a sales tactic, or it's both. I have seen people claiming f5 and f6 and as much as f12. LOL.. That f12's didn't have the amount of time to even get close to that number and as Warren pointed out the higher the filial the more inbreeding involved. I have seen people claim f3-f5 and basically it was the same pair that had produced the 5 litters so each litter would all be F1's. If you don't mind I will link this or copy this whole thread with all the replies and post it on Amazon-Alliance. Let me know if you have a problem with that. Again thank you and others that have supplied great info in this thread!!!
    [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Charles Koutris[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.iherp.com/Charles"]http://www.iherp.com/Charles[/URL]

  6. #16
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    Charles, feel free to link!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
    Charles, feel free to link!
    Great, thank you JB!!
    [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Charles Koutris[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.iherp.com/Charles"]http://www.iherp.com/Charles[/URL]

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    I reached F4 with Amazon tree boas, with the desire to determine the polygenetic heritablity of color and pattern. Although F3 crosses of, for example solid red amazons, produced in general solid red babies, there were always instances of barden phase, or patterned animals in these litters.

    Warren
    So you were trying to prove there were many different sources that contributed to
    the color of these Amazon tree Boas you were researching !?!


    Was that your conclusion that several different sources or lineages
    contributed to the color over a long period of time ?

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