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  1. #1
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    Default Suriname X Kahl, OPINIONSS PLEASE!!!!

    recently found a stunning hypo suriname het. kahl albino female online. How do you guys(and gals ) feel about BCC X KAHL(BCI) projects??? How do you feel the outcome of a hypo suriname het. kahl X jungle het.lipstick line??? Do surinames come in hypo or did they most likely get that in there from breeding a suriname to a kahl sunglow???

  2. #2
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    They can produce some killer offspring.
    I guess some frown on it, but the albino and sunglow form will be great designer snakes.
    The hypo had to come from the BCI side. IMO

  3. #3
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    i feel that people should keep bci/bcc/bco, ect...all as pure as possible. and only because people down the road dont always know what they are getting, and it muddies up the gene pool. but at the same time, i guess if the breeder/seller is honest on what you are getting, and you like the animal....then ultimately it is your call...AS LONG AS you represent any offspring for what they are. i definately think it could add color, but at what cost? again, how do we really know that ANY of the animals we have are honestly pure anyways, unless the breeder or collector has actul documentation, or collected the founding stock themselves? there has been so many generations of captive breeding, we really honestly dont know what we have...guys like vin russo who actually go collect the animals from the wild, and documents exactly where they were collected, and keeps the breedings pure...are the best way to keep them pure. even if a group of boas are imported from say surinam....it is almost guarenteed that not all of those animals actully are all suri's... some were probably collected elsewhere, and sent with that shipment....so unless you KNOW the guy you are getting the animals from either collected them, or is getting them from a reliable source, how can you call them 'pure'? so if it were me, i would never cross the sub species and local animals into morphs, but i am sure a lot more people do it....i actually dont believe for ONE SECOND that the VPI t positive are pure colombian, or even BCI...look at the peaks, and the head structure of some of the 'founding' animals...i dont think they are pure bcc, not for a second. so who is to say...i would choose to keep locality and sub species seperate from the morphs...but a lot of people dont. it is too late to stop it, but we surely can slow it down...to some extent.
    Last edited by snakedoktor; 04-13-2013 at 10:20 PM.
    Rick Moss

  4. #4
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    I do understand that Rick, Keeping them pure for the future. But i also think that the BCC brought over to the kahl strain COULD POSSIBLY result in some albinos/sunglows drenched in reds. Now...my chance of getting a suriname sunglow is probably pretty slim from a het. to het. pairing. Getting a most prized jungle suriname sunglow is probably near impossible. But imagine that??? I think even the jungle suriname would be amazing. Has anyone ever produced a jungle suriname????

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpdRT View Post
    I do understand that Rick, Keeping them pure for the future. But i also think that the BCC brought over to the kahl strain COULD POSSIBLY result in some albinos/sunglows drenched in reds. Now...my chance of getting a suriname sunglow is probably pretty slim from a het. to het. pairing. Getting a most prized jungle suriname sunglow is probably near impossible. But imagine that??? I think even the jungle suriname would be amazing. Has anyone ever produced a jungle suriname????
    i have NO DOUBT that it would completely make the colors INSANE. but you need to make sure that EVERY potential buyer of any offspring know that they are crosses...that is really my only concern with it. i mean i dont see how people can say it is totally wrong, other than muddying the gene pool...but those some of those same people are still using non pure animals themselves. so it is up to the breeders, and the buyers in the long run. i think it is funny, that a guy i know...who does produce some of the best stuff out there, calls A LOT of peoples animals 'mutts' and swears his stuff is pure colombian....BUT HE HAS HYPO animals from way back....makes me just shake my head. i think that you can do what you want, and as long as you are honest about it...go for it. i dont judge, because i have morphs...and by being a morph breeder, i am playing 'god' by breeding for mutations...so i am nobodys judge. the only time i think it is wrong to do things like that, is when people are not 100% honest about it. that is really my only complaint...because there is no doubt that it will enhance color by leaps...and like i said, look at how many people are playing with VPI t pos, which again...i dont buy for a second are pure bci.
    Rick Moss

  6. #6
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    Rick, i'm a very honest person. Say if i did purchase this female and produce a litter. I'd let people know they came from a hypo suriname het. kahl and a jungle het. kahl. Making the babies only 25% suriname 75%bci and what... 25% chance being het for albino???? Geeeez. that sound like a really long project now that i think of it.... if the babies aren't visually albino or sunglow it's a very slim chance of carrying the albino gene. So out of the litter i'd really have maybe a handful of visuals. hm..............

  7. #7
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    I think as long as the boa(s) are represented properly and sold for what they actually are, there is no problem with it.
    Adding BCC into most of the projects, especially the Albinos and Sunglows yields some outstanding offspring.

    It worked out pretty well for this little girl.

    Name:  12guyhet1f2.jpg
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpdRT View Post
    Rick, i'm a very honest person. Say if i did purchase this female and produce a litter. I'd let people know they came from a hypo suriname het. kahl and a jungle het. kahl. Making the babies only 25% suriname 75%bci and what... 25% chance being het for albino???? Geeeez. that sound like a really long project now that i think of it.... if the babies aren't visually albino or sunglow it's a very slim chance of carrying the albino gene. So out of the litter i'd really have maybe a handful of visuals. hm..............
    i have no doubt about it, that you are honest....i was in no way referring to you personally. sorry if it seemed that way, or if i worded it that way somehow....and you could always hit the odds...breeding a het to a het, you will get visual albinos, the ratio from a het to a het will be about 25% visual babie albinos...and then you have to break down the dominant traits into the odds of actually getting what you are shooting for. it is all relative, and you could hit really high odds and get way more than you should have...or way less....it all depends on where the genes land on each animal.
    Last edited by snakedoktor; 04-13-2013 at 10:52 PM.
    Rick Moss

  9. #9
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    Look at that contrast!!! Awesome!!

    As for crossing, I believe that they would cross in the wild if they ever crossed each other. However, the likelihood of that happening is definitely on the lower end. I feel that as long as things are labelled properly and people know what they are getting, I don't see a problem with it. You have some people who want snakes that are crosses and others who don't.

    Star

  10. #10
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    whan someone uses the term 66% het for albino...all that means is that both the parents were actual het for albino, which means 66% of that entire clutch, will actually get the albino gene from each parent...not visible, but approx. 66% of those babies will be actual hets, the rest non het albino animals(except the approx 25% visuals that would come from this breeding. a het to het breeding will get about 25% visual albinos, the rest having a 66% possibility of being het albino.
    a 50% poss het would come from only one parent being a het for the trait(albino in this case), so half of the litter will get that half of the albino gene from the one parent...resulting in roughly half of the clutch being 100% het for albino babies, and the other half of the litter will be non het albinos.

    i hope i worded this so you can understand it....if you didnt already know...some people think that a "66% het albino" is somehow 66% actual het...they dont catch the fact that it means that 66% of that litter will have the albino gene, and the rest are complete normals...i have had this come about from developing hobbiests and upcoming breeders...that is why i explained it....
    Last edited by snakedoktor; 04-13-2013 at 11:02 PM.
    Rick Moss

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