Facebook

» Online Users: 44

0 members and 44 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 1,700, 09-01-2015 at 04:06 PM.

» google ads

» Classifieds - Random Ads


Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Age
    40
    Posts
    560
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BASICALLY BOAS View Post
    I think as long as the boa(s) are represented properly and sold for what they actually are, there is no problem with it.
    Adding BCC into most of the projects, especially the Albinos and Sunglows yields some outstanding offspring.

    It worked out pretty well for this little girl.

    Attachment 2517
    that is a spectacular animal Mike! and i agree, as long as the buyers know, then who are people to judge.
    Rick Moss

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    640
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think I recall seeing the same ad for the hypo suriname. The next bits of info, I'm not completely positive on, so bear with me. I believe the breeder produced it with the idea of making some killer sunglow roswells. Supposedly, the original roswells were 100% BCC, until someone crossed some albino (BCI) into them. The idea behind the hypo suriname het Kahl was to help put some BCC blood back into the project in an attempt to make them more vibrant. As big Mike showed in his photo, albino BCI x BCC babies should look amazing. If the boa has already been crossed (produced), then it has a right to be introduced to another boa when the breeding season comes 'round

    While I may get flack for my next comment, I'm going to say it anyways. There is no law that says you need to label the snake as exactly what it is. Here me out on this. I'm not implying that people should lie about what an animal is or isn't. I'm simply saying that it's okay for someone to produce something cool and sell it as a "boa", period. Hey look, my albino boas have really awesome red tails. In fact if you look at the litter pics, it appears as though most of them have this really cool trait. I'd guess it's probably inheritable. If you like my snakes and like my price, then by all means buy my snakes, thank you.

    I'm sure you get the idea.

    I've regretted not purchasing quite a few "normal boas" that were in no way normal. What I was missing out on was the fact that sometimes "normal boas" are carrying awesome traits too. Just because a boa came from a pet store, and doesn't have a genetic name yet, or a known specific local, doesn't mean you shouldn't breed it to whatever you want and sell the babies. If people don't want to buy your snakes, then they won't. After all, how did we end up with lipstick and coral animals? Weren't the original stock of VPI's found in a pet store in Texas? The Scoria boa popped up in a captive litter and is now worth thousands. The original IMG boa was purchased for $300 at a reptile show from a breeder who nobody has ever heard of and look at their value now. I'm curious to know if Jeremy knows where the princess diamond was collected from.

    Now I hope the locality folks don't get mad at me for this next point, but I might as well say it anyways. In my opinion, people who breed locality boas are no different than people who breed morphs. We are all breeding with the goal or propagating a certain look. Anything beyond selling completely healthy snakes is just marketing. Different tastes appeal to different folks. I'd also like to mention, that I'm sure most of the locality stuff that has been reproduced in captivity is probably starting to look less like the founding stock as breeders attempt to "selectively breed certain traits". In the wild, animals with the best camouflage have a better chance of survival. Extra black speckling is definitely better for low visibility, yet most breeders try to clean up their lines by reducing the black speckling -just sayin'. I know there might be a few breeders who will say that they have hand selected their stock from import shipments, and that that's how the animals look naturally. I don't doubt that for a second. I might argue though, that if the snake looked darker and muddier, it might not have been caught (survival of the fittest).

    I'll make one last point. A few years ago, I recall seeing an add on Kingsnake (with pics) of pure albino BCC's. I don't recall if they were being marketed as Surinames or Guyanas, but the OP had written in his ad, "yes, they are 100% BCC, please stop asking that question." I believe he was selling them around $5000, I don't recall if that was the pair price or individual price. I don't know if he ever sold them and I haven't heard anything of that project since. So I'm not really sure what to make of it. The boa industry does have a pretty good ability of policing its self when needed. That's what forums like this are for, and that's what having friends in this community is all about. I'm sure if someone bought one and bred it to a Kahl or Sharp and discovered it was the same thing, then we'd all hear about it pretty quickly.

    If you're going to make a cool new boa, then by all means do it. I'd love to see it. And if the community demands you tell us what the ingredients are, you can, or you can tell everyone it's a boa, period. There is no law stating that you need to give up your trade secrets or proprietary information.

    -Anthony
    Last edited by Amp; 04-13-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Age
    40
    Posts
    560
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    very well said Anthony.
    Rick Moss

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Age
    32
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Great points Anthony!!! I'm seriously considering this project... right now i know of 1 hypo suriname het. kahl for sale. It's a female, i could put it to my jungle het. kahl male OR keep looking for a male suriname het. kahl to put to my lipstick Junglow and have much better chances of getting visuals AND all the babies would be 100% hets. HMMM..... decisions decisions. Also want to pick up another lipstick sunglow. GEEEZ THESE SNAKES ARE ADDICTING!!!! I just got my first pied a week ago and i'm already looking at getting 2 more snakes!!! WHEN DOES IT STOP!! HAHAHA

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Illinois
    Age
    43
    Posts
    882
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    One eyed surinames, sounds good to me... Some day when everyone graduates from the diapers made out of Ben Franklins, they will realize that money did not make boas look the way they do. Think about this, if you had ALL the money in the world, what would you NOT be able to buy EVER, the answer is totally clear! Sure there are some one of a kind animals in nature, but in the end all the morphers are going to realize that they have lost out on one thing, real life! I do not mean this post to be insulting in any way, it is the truth and everyone knows it. So go mix and match your animals, it is all about a short term money scam.
    Chris

  6. Dislikes BASICALLY BOAS disliked this post
  7. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Southern Calif.
    Age
    42
    Posts
    887
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cwolf View Post
    One eyed surinames, sounds good to me... Some day when everyone graduates from the diapers made out of Ben Franklins, they will realize that money did not make boas look the way they do. Think about this, if you had ALL the money in the world, what would you NOT be able to buy EVER, the answer is totally clear! Sure there are some one of a kind animals in nature, but in the end all the morphers are going to realize that they have lost out on one thing, real life! I do not mean this post to be insulting in any way, it is the truth and everyone knows it. So go mix and match your animals, it is all about a short term money scam.
    Chris


    You say you do not mean your post to be insulting, but you go and insult boa mutation breeders by assuming they are all only in it for money and are short term money scammers. Ya, not insulting at all!?

    You say, " it is the truth and everyone knows it."

    It is your truth, and you are entitled to think or believe whatever you want. Many people often believe their beliefs to be true.

    Your opinions are welcome here as it is a public forum, but you should try to do it with a little more taste.

    Your post is just a big reminder to me why guys like Gus Rentfro get my respect. He is on this forum regularly viewing and sharing his beautiful Locale creations and does it with out ever leaving a negative comment on anybody else's posts /threads that he may not agree with the topic or boas involved.

    You sound like you need a big hug there buddy.
    Last edited by BASICALLY BOAS; 04-14-2013 at 05:17 AM.

  8. Thanks Boaz, Bayou Exotics thanked for this post
    Likes Boaz liked this post
  9. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Illinois
    Age
    43
    Posts
    882
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    My defense is in the original post, I have nothing further to say. It is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, just as you are yours.

    Chris

  10. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    640
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Here's another simple truth. Anyone who has ever produced a litter and sold the babies (for any amount of profit) is in it for the money. There is no law saying that since you have a pair of boas you absolutely must breed them. In fact once people do breed their boas, they typically try to sell all of the offspring they can. After all, giving away boas on Craigslist can be scary since you don't know what kind of care will be given to the boa from the person who receives it. Whether you produce one litter or 1000, if you sell the babies then you will make money. If you didn't want to make money, then why breed at all? How many boas do we hear about each breeding season that die while gravid? How about the females that die while giving birth, or shortly thereafter?

    I believe we all breed for the same reason. We love the animals. Now I still haven't figured out how to get my boas to fetch my slippers, or bark when someone's at the front door, or even play fetch. So I'm not quite sure how "useful" they are in my household. But I love my boas regardless. Knowing the joy they bring to me, leads me to believe that they will also bring joy to others. Someone has to be responsible for providing that service/good, so in steps the breeder. Will they do it for free? No. Time and resources are not free. So then the real question/issue is how does one price a boa? (Hmm... I'm having a revelation as I write this.) If snake X currently sells for $500 and there are none available in the market, then $500 should be a fair asking price. Now let's say snake Y sells for $10,000 and there are currently none available in the market, then is $500 a fair asking price?

    Consider this observation that I'm sure most of us can agree upon. BCC's (this is the only local specific boa that I've ever seen prices on) typically sell between $200-$600 -all day, every day. However, I recall last year seeing a very nice striped tail litter that had babies selling for $1000+. These were remarkable animals, and I kick myself for not buying a few babies from that litter. Considering the price is normally between $200-$600, would you not purchase the animals at $1000+? How do you price your boas?

    Does this make the breeder a bad person because they produced something exceptional, and are asking for more money than normal? After all, what differentiates any breeder's snakes from another? Is it the genes, color, bloodlines, the breeders ability to take better pictures, marketing, or price? (This reminds me of the thread about underrated/overrated where one person posted that every project they were working with was underrated, and every project they weren't working with was overrated, lol.)

    I think one of the major differences between morph and local breeders is the price of the founding stock. If someone purchases a 5 gene snake (something that is very hard to do with the odds of success being 1/32) for $3000 and then breeds it to another animal valued at $2000, then should they really sell the babies for $40 each? Of course not. Let's say a local breeder purchases their founding stock for $500 each ($1000 for the pair), and produces a litter where every single baby is the same as the founding stock (no odds to hit in this litter), then is it right for them to ask for $1000 per baby -perhaps. Especially if they are the only one's that produce a litter that year. However, will they? No. My thoughts on this go back to initial investment. How can I justify asking $1000 for the same boa that I only paid $500 for (especially if it doesn't have any striped tails, lol). On the other hand, when boas are purchased for higher dollar amounts, it's hard for the seller to consider lowering their price when they take into account rarity and cost. I wonder, if locales were more expensive than morphs, would the tables be turned?

    In a perfectly competitive market, every product will eventually settle to it's equilibrium price (where supply meets demand). For BCC's that seems to be around $200-$600. All of the morph projects will eventually hit their bottoms as well. Time will dictate what that price is for each morph. Some will do better than others, and some will disappear from the market completely as demand declines.

    Another thing to consider, is utility. Utility (as defined in economic terms), is the maximum satisfaction that a person receives from buying a good or service. In general, a person will only pay the amount of money for good X (a boa in our case), that they believe will bring them the same amount of satisfaction that is worth that much money. It's an opportunity cost comparison -in other words, how else could I spend the same amount of money and be equally satisfied? As long as their is someone in the market who want's to buy a $5000 snake, then there will be a breeder in the market willing to produce it. It's a win-win situation for the buyer and the seller.

    -Anthony

  11. Thanks Bayou Exotics thanked for this post
    Likes Bayou Exotics liked this post
  12. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Age
    40
    Posts
    560
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cwolf View Post
    One eyed surinames, sounds good to me... Some day when everyone graduates from the diapers made out of Ben Franklins, they will realize that money did not make boas look the way they do. Think about this, if you had ALL the money in the world, what would you NOT be able to buy EVER, the answer is totally clear! Sure there are some one of a kind animals in nature, but in the end all the morphers are going to realize that they have lost out on one thing, real life! I do not mean this post to be insulting in any way, it is the truth and everyone knows it. So go mix and match your animals, it is all about a short term money scam.
    Chris
    probably one of the most arrogant and ignorant posts i have seen...dont get me wrong, you have your opinion, and i respect that...but mike is right, that was done with little taste and no respect at all. who are you to judge...you are doing the same thing, just with different animals...for the most part.
    Last edited by snakedoktor; 04-14-2013 at 04:43 PM.
    Rick Moss

  13. Thanks Bayou Exotics thanked for this post
  14. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    pacific northwest
    Posts
    121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Look i own two surinam red tail bcc which i plan to breed. recently i got into chondros and they are mixed locality. so my thought is why dont we try to to do mix locality bccs you know like peruvian bccs to suriname, brazilian to guyana etc. then that way yes they would be crosses but they still would pure bcc blood lines but with the chance of having interesting genes that may be unique to the class of bcc and unlike morphs they would be unique an example think of the yellow body from peruvian with a heavy accent of pink or purple depending on if you use a suri. or guyana? just my two cents

  15. Dislikes reptile rubio, dub disliked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Sponsors









» ads by google

» Random Albums Photo

269 more carpets
PanamaRed
more carpets