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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownSouthSnakes View Post
    Btw warren I tried contacting you on Facebook about a week ago about the sheds and got absolutely no response, I wasn't sure exactly what you were interested in shed wise, I had sheds from an argentine female, and a Brazilian amarali as well as a hypo Costa Rican.
    Hi,
    I get so many friend requests and facebook messages that I tend to ignore them as I do not personally know them. So please excuse that.

    At this time we do not need anything other than Bci. As for the hypo Costa Rican, who produced it?

    Warren
    Dr Warren Booth/USARK director

  2. #62
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    Mar 2012
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    Delbono, I'm pretty sure we discussed this before And that they might not be 100% Costa Rican, but nonetheless it's no longer in my possession. If/when you decide to do something with the morphs or hets or whatever, I'd be more than happy to send some sheds your way, it's the least I could do to contribute! Thanks
    Last edited by DownSouthSnakes; 04-26-2013 at 02:33 PM.
    DownSouthSnakes

  3. #63
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    Hi,
    Thanks for that. You are right, the hypo flame Costa Ricans are not pure Costa Ricans, and therefore do not fit into this project. I am good friends with Rich Delbono and have said I disagree with the way these have been named, as in the long run they lead to confusion as to what they are.

    What I need are locality pure animals.

    As far as the morphs component goes, I think that is a project I will not bother with for many years, if ever. It shocks me that the general herp community cry out when bad science drives potential bans (e.g. Burms in the Everglades), yet ignores requests for genuine scientific research (i.e. understanding evolutionary processes and phylogeography). Why give to a community that does not give back?
    When I see big name "locale" breeders openly shun contributing samples (shed skins, not animals) to this kind of project, it makes me think. I would have always thought a pure locale breeder would want to accentuate the confirmation of their animals with genetic support. Obviously not.

    Warren
    Dr Warren Booth/USARK director

  4. #64
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    Ya that to me is shocking! Maybe they aren't so confident in their "pure" local boas! See that's why you should switch over to the morph stuff now instead of in years because we will be much more willing to contribute, would it be possible for you to tell hets now if paid for? Or is their much needed work before that is possible?
    DownSouthSnakes

  5. #65
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    Feb 2008
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    Sarasota, FL
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    There aren't a lot of people actually working with "locality" animals. There are quite a few working with animals from specific countries, but that's not a locality. A Nicaraguan BCI is NOT a locality animal. A Bluefields Nicaraguan BCI is a locality animal. There are really only a few sources with LOTS of locality BCI - Gus and Vin are the two that come to mind. Rather than post in a thread, have you tried reaching out to them directly? I know Vin peruses forums from time to time but for the most part, stays away. Gus is hit or miss. Sometimes he'll be around quite a bit, then he'll disappear for months.

    Most everything else is descended from their stock.

    There are however, LOTS of island boas which meets most folks criteria for locality - mine included.

    jb

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  7. #66
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    Dec 2006
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    Here is your Big Breeder......because I am currently 5'-8" and 260lbs from eating too many pop-tarts. LOL

    Ok, I considered myself a big breeder, if not one of the larger breeders out there. I read all the posts here and there were too many great posts for me to quote them all. I think I 'liked' all the ones though I agreed with. Really good stuff in this thread and civilized debate.

    Now, you want a big breeder to tell you the truth, I am guilty of power feeding, breeding females too young, killing young females all to get to that special boa as quick as possible. All of the bigger breeders have done it even if they wont admit to it. It used to be the norm and protocol to get a female to 12-15lbs by 2.5 years old just to get the breeding done and babies from her. I STOPPED all that by 2008 though as I saw
    how much damage it was doing to the young females, the slug ratios and how some of the females didn't bounce back so to speak after the litters. I lost very few if any while they were gravid, some did die after ovulation and some mid-term for no apparent reason. Most of the problems came after birthing where I had females that just would waste and die and females that would go flat like a pancake from lack of retaining their muscle tone. These females even when given the following year off never were the best and healthiest boas after that. Most would give me 1-3 more litters and would eventually pass. Now if getting 8 years out of a boa like JB said and 3-4 litters is good for you, then so be it. The biggest problem was the muscle tone issue. You take a young female and stretch her out with babies, then you go and try to put the weight right back on her and her muscle tone goes to hell. Even now a days I take a year to put the weight back on a female after she births.

    I have been there and done that, seen the all the proof I need to see. Now I wait till a female is anywhere from 3.5-5 years old to breed her. Some of the feeding schedules I see on the net are ridiculous, BUT I am guilty of those types of feeding schedules also in the past. My babies get fed every 7 days, sub-adults every 10-14 days, 2-2.5 year old boas every 14 days.
    This might surprise a few, but my large breeding adults in the offseason, males and females every 3-4 weeks. Now during breeding season it is increased due to stimulating follicle growth in females, so they will get fed every 14 days.

    Since I have changed my ways I have larger, healthier litters and my females look great going into their first breeding season at 3.5-5 years of age and bounce back perfectly now as long as there is no other underlying health issues.

    This season alone I had about a dozen 2008 females set up to breed for their first times and still passed on a couple not even putting males in with them. Some of these females are DH and TH for new mutations that you would have thought I would have rushed to breed and produce from earlier and at a younger age.

    Just my input for those who want to listen and learn.
    Last edited by BASICALLY BOAS; 04-26-2013 at 08:37 PM.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
    There are really only a few sources with LOTS of locality BCI - Gus and Vin are the two that come to mind. Rather than post in a thread, have you tried reaching out to them directly?
    jb
    Vin has been great. Very helpful and completely recognizes the important of this study.
    Warren
    Dr Warren Booth/USARK director

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  10. #68
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    Aug 2009
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    My feeding/breeding argument was always based off a book a read in high school about bcis. For the life of me I cant remember what book, some paper back I found at a library. It stated breeding happened around 8-10 yrs of age, with boas living to 20-30 yrs. If this is true just look at how we in captivity with our scheduled feedings. We are super growing our boas. Breeding at 2-3 yrs every yr. I'm a women, my boys are close together in age, I had big babies 10 plus lbs lol My doctor told me my babies are smashing my heart and It could kill me, it was really hard on my body. I was 24 and he told me I had to get my tubes tied pregnancy is hard no matter what you are, its like what Warren said it does a number on your physical well being. It makes me really feel for my girls having 20 plus babies, not to mention the ones that are getting pushed every year to do it again!! We are killing our boas. Who has a 30 yr old boa?? anybody??

    Its sad, why push your animal to have the coolest new morph or pay a bill. To some people boas are literally just "stock" and its easy to point those people out! I get harped on all the time because I'm careful about feeding. I have 3 yr old boas on med rats yup they are tiny and look great!! I always hear I'm going to miss the trend so what it was never about a trend and at one point it wasn't a trend for anybody else, you really thought boas were just "neat". Any animal in our care is dependent on us to do what's right for them. Don't risk the "if" just do what's best and you will sleep much better at night
    Jen <3

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  12. #69
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    FANTASTIC post Jen!

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  14. #70
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    Another point that could be a factor for those that have a large collection is the cost of rodents. Feeding 80 boas every week (from babies to adults) can be very expensive. Spacing out the feeding costs by feeding babies every 7-10 days, sub adults every 2 weeks, and then every 3 weeks for adults is certainly a financially sound practice.

    I'm glad this thread was started. I had 2 2010 females that were around 9-10lbs at the start of the breeding season. I was going to attempt to breed them both. I spoke with a very big breeder in FL who has successfully gotten 2 year old females to breed at 9lbs. I also recall reading another big breeder's website that he feeds conservatively and breeds his boas at 4.5 years old and only 7 pounds. So my logic was that since age wasn't an issue for the first breeder, and size wasn't an issue for the second breeder, then I should be okay to go ahead and breed them both. Both of these projects are morph projects. I really wanted to prove out my males and females for certain genes so that I'd know how to pair my animals up for the following season. However, I just couldn't do it.

    I absolutely LOVE some of my boas, others not so much (please don't harp on me for this, just follow my logic in my next few sentences). I have a few visually appealing boas that I want to have around for a looonnnnggg time. I also have a bunch of double and triple hets that aren't really that attractive. That doesn't mean that they don't get the same attention and care as my other boas. I just wouldn't feel the loss as deeply if they died, which they will eventually. I think one of the saddest parts of breeding for me is the theory that we are potentially shortening the animal's life span with each additional breeding. Both of the 2010 females I mentioned earlier are so beautiful that I have about 6 different males that I want to breed to each one. To think that it will take 9+ years of breeding, after they are mature enough to breed, makes me sad to think they could die before they get there. I'm glad to hear that April is having litters from boas over the age of 10

    -Anthony

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